But I think that if we provide spaces where we can truly express ourselves to God and to others, people will flock to worship with us. This is one reason that a lot of people are wary of “church” – they can’t find authenticity where they want to worship. They see right through the hype – OR, even if what they see in the worship of others is genuine, they know that they themselves couldn’t be genuine in whatever box or paradigm has been set up and established (including “contemporary” music). I will continue to maintain that the lack of 20-30 somethings in church has little to do with style and everything to do with authenticity.

Jesus talks about this in a passage that is formational for me. When he’s sitting with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4, she’s going on about where and with whom to worship and how she – as a Samaritan – knows what she’s supposed to think and how she knows what Jesus – as a Jew – is supposed to think, and Jesus interjects about “true” worship – “This is the time when the true worship is found when people worship God in spirit and in truth. This is what God is, and it’s what God wants from those who worship him.” (that’s the JDS version)

For simplicity, “in spirit” – with all the life within you and “in truth” – like you mean it. We most often confuse this with “doing it well”. God doesn’t ask us to “do it well.” He asks us to do it with all that’s in us (spirit, pneuma, life) and he asks us to do it honestly, like we mean it (in truth). When we strive to “do it well”, we don’t allow room for mistakes. Mistakes are part of being honest. When we don’t allow for mistakes, we make it hard to be honest. — Jeremy Scott

This is not hard for me to get cognitively. But it is a dissonance. Maybe it has something to do with the difficulty some of us have with dressing “casual” when we come to worship. We were taught that “excellence” is the sign of true worship to God.

What is scary for me is I believe that we are headed down the same segregated landscape for the church as we have faced in Protestant churches for generations. Instead of being divided by race or socioeconomic group – as the church growth folks said was necessary, we are divided by generation and taste. I long for the true body of Christ to be willing to be in the same room together – more than that, to be willing to do life together. The church is the only place in our culture where true intergenerational community can happen, but I am afraid we are settling for far less. — Mike Schutz

I think I understand the conflict and tension between worship and propaganda. Heaven knows we have seen enough of that in the church. But, I don’t get the worship and art thing. Art is almost always about how the artist feels and what the artist experiences. Isn’t that quite the opposite of worship? Isn’t worship focusing on God and who He is and what He has done? — Me

Preaching, music and drama are all arts we use in worship. But there are more ways to express how God is at work in the world than the language based forms we often see in traditional worship settings. — Ryan Scott

I think there are a few other things that trouble me. For instance when he says:

“I’m telling the truth as I see it.” — Truth is not defined by how I perceive it.

“The truth today might be that I don’t even feel that God is real” — Truth is not equivalent to feelings. Yet Brian elevates it to that level. That is dangerous.

“The Bible can handle that” — Of course it can. But that does not make it acceptable for us to feel that way or act on those feelings. The Bible can handle all sorts of human and sinful behavior, but that does not make it acceptable for me to act in those ways.

“So doubt is part of this thing” — Again, maybe it is part of the process and is somewhat inevitable in our growth and maturity, but that does not make it right and acceptable. Jesus goes on in the same story that McLaren quotes and says to “Doubting” Thomas in John 20:29 “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

I am not discounting everything that Brian McLaren says. But we need to be careful with and examine some of the implications to extending his thought process to some logical conclusions. — Me

I get that part. I even get it when we use interpretive dance and all that stuff. I am just a little uneasy about terming it “art”. Art has intrinsic and residual value once it is completed. A painting grows in value as it sits on your wall. Worship is not like that. I cannot nail a worship experience to my wall today and come back and gain anything from it next week. I can draw strenght and encouragement from the God who inspired it. But I cannot gain anything from it in an iconic sense as is seen in the Roman Catholic traditions.

Bottom line, I need my worship to be fresh and new every day and every Sunday. — Me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Bowser “I’m telling the truth as I see it.” — Truth is not defined by how I perceive it. “The truth today might be that I don’t even feel that God is real” — Truth is not equivalent to feelings. Yet Brian elevates it to that level. That is dangerous.

This is essentially a major difference between modern and postmodern thinking. Obviously we can agree that the absolute truth is God.

However, we’re incapable of ever really understanding that truth. We have to use our own understanding and perception to make those judgments. It’s why we have theological disagreements and various denominations. Everyone thinks they have truth.

Ultimately truth is our perception. Now through study, community, tradition and other sources we may come to understand that what we once thought was truth, was far from it, but for people, perception is truth.

The point of the video is that worship is the interaction of our perception of truth, with the ultimate truth of God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Bowser Art has intrinsic and residual value once it is completed. A painting grows in value as it sits on your wall. Worship is not like that. I cannot nail a worship experience to my wall today and come back and gain anything from it next week.

I agree with this. I’m not sure that’s exactly what McLaren is saying though. He’s not saying worship is art in itself. He’s talking about using art as an expression of worship. If someone paints during a service, the worship of that painting is attached to the painting for the life of the art. It’s not that the service itself is art, but it utilizes various art forms to express our worship of God. — Ryan Scott